LTWOO eGR Results Writeup

Installation and first impressions

Update: 6/10/24

Background

I was interested in the LTWOO eGR groupset to use on my 2019 Salsa Cutthroat. It was running SRAM Force 1 HRD (Mechanical shifting, hydraulic brakes) with a Garbaruk 10-50 cassette and their cage extender to allow for that range on Force.  The setup worked, but I never had the reliable, crisp shifting I would have liked. Usually ended up 'finessing' each shift with partial presses etc. It was nearly impossible to find the right tension setting to get perfect indexing.  As my first 11s rig, I tolerated it as semi-normal for a while. Some of this is understandable given that it was modified outside of OEM spec. So I'm not badmouthing the Force itself based on that (for the badmouth, see this https://youtu.be/Ef1pdCRaeaw)

In building up a road bike this year, I found a great deal (Closeout D1) on a SRAM Force eTap 12s kit and decided to give it a whirl. It was a revelation. Easy setup on the first try. Fast, quick shifting. Never felt the hesitation of 'do I really want to shift now' like I had on the fiddly setup. So this got me thinking maybe the future IS in electronic and maybe I shouldn't be putting up with it.

But, upgrading to SRAM AXS on the Cutty was going to cost a fortune. Basically a full replacement mullet groupset less the cranks. Going mullet on SRAM requires AXS and requires 12s. So all parts of the drivetrain. Even at Rival/GX level the full kit of shifters, derailleur, chain and cassette (x2 as I have two wheelsets) works out to $1500 for the parts (50% more than I paid for the road gruppo). Budget buster.

I've been intrigued by LTWOO's entries into electronic shifting over the last year and a half. Good looking. Reportedly highly functional and an amazing price. And they are doing the right thing and allowing software configuration of the 'speeds' of the system (initially 10-12) which both SRAM and Shimano have refused to do and thus force full system upgrades.  The only downside were the reports of possible quality problems. I say 'possible' because on one side the reports were clear in the repetition from multiple reviewers of pre-release eRX units. But on the other side, it appears the later shipping eRX versions were not reporting these issues and the limited reports on the year-later eGR release were more limited.

But, the price was radically less. Basically the cost of a rear SRAM AXS derailleur and not having to replace 2 cassettes, chain, chainring from the 11s setup.  The one spec concern was the official limit of 46t cassettes and mine are 50t. But given that their other RDs go to 50 and at least one reviewer saying it 'worked' even if he wasn't happy with it along with possible hacks like a roadlink it seemed like it should be workable and less of a stretch than the stock 42t max on the current Force 1 RD.

All of this made for a compelling option to consider taking a flyer on and testing

Purchase and Installation

I ordered the 'naked' (no box, no fluids, no battery) kit via Aliexpress for the minimum price. It arrived in about a week, neatly packed in plain wrapping.  It looks great. Very nice fit and finish. The kit includes a full set of the 'stuff' needed to set up. Brake hose, end fittings, adapters, a variety of bolts etc. Nicely done.

Neatly and safely packed (but not the pretty display case)

But, going through the adapters brought about the first problem. While I had been told that the LTWOO calipers with the included adapters were meant for post mount, this is NOT correct. For reasons I won't try to figure out, they do not use a standard hole spacing. The mounting flanges LOOK like post mount but are only 70mm apart where post mount is 74mm. They also use M5 bolts and post is M6. 

The included adapters make them compatible with flat mount NOT post mount. As far as I could tell, nobody makes an adapter that would let them work. On the rear, it would theoretically be possible since my frame is set up for native 140mm rotors and you could make an adapter that would fit while also pushing out to 160mm spacing. But I don't think it would even be possible for the fork since it is native 160mm so any adapter would push it out (and 180 not certified).  I couldn't recycle the old calipers since they are SRAM and thus DOT fluid based. But I lucked into a local FBM seller with a pair of NOS Shimano BR-RS785 calipers available for a song. (and thanks to y'all here for confirming that they'd work with LTWOO levers). So, on with the build.

Build Notes

Brifters:

• Battery installation: Door is secured by ONE screw. The other end is hidden under the hood when folded back normally. This is a good thing but don't waste your time trying to get to the 'second screw (that isn't there) Shape markings are molded on the body to indicate direction the installation direction (nice). Be GENTLE on the screw as it is threading into plastic and never really 'bottoms out'
  
  
    

  
  
  
  
• I went a little crazy trying to get it into pairing mode. Instructions are clear but leave out one helpful detail: The pairing light is on the OUTSIDE of the lever and viewed in the crack between the paddles. If you are looking for it on the inside by the button like on SRAM, you won't see it light. Clear as day when you look in the right place.

App setup:

• App setup was a little finicky getting it to find the master RD. It reported none to find when it was freshly awakened. Based on ongoing experience, it may be that the RD goes to sleep REALLY fast. So just jiggle the bike (or RD on the bench) again and it will work.
• The app opens in Chinese. If you can't read it, don't stress. Look at that home screen carefully and you'll figure out where to change the language to English. Sorry I didn't get a screenshot to share. I have a note about setting it up with just the email option, but I can't recall why. It's annoying that it is yet another app for local control that still demands a cloud login to work. But this isn't unique to LTWOO
• Oddly, it initially reported the RD as eGR Mountain Series (which doesn't exist publicly). But it now reports just eGR series. So things are changing.
  
  
  
  
  
• I set continuous shift to high. It's not so fast that you will be over shifting. I don't see any reason to run it more slowly unless you have problems. If you don't want it skipping across multiple gears, just block continuous shift.
• Giant miss for LTWOO: Both brifters have active shifting buttons. Not sure why since these are the gravel-specific models which are 1x only. Either left or right unit can control the rear derailleur (or the front if there were one). But you cannot set it to use either side (push wherever is convenient). Nor can you set it to run AXS style with upshift on one side and downshift on the other. I wrote to LTWOO and they confirmed this but left the door open for future software updates. They should absolutely allow both sides to be configured at the same time. Other modes or uses would be nice though.
  
  
    

  

Brakes

• Notes above about the mount limitations with the LTWOO calipers. A shame I couldn't use them as they seem nicely made and look good. Note that while the kit comes with all the parts to install the LTWOO brakes (on flat mount), you will be missing a pair of crush bolts if you use different calipers unless you cannibalize the pre-installed ones that came on the LTWOO calipers. Getting them stalled my build.
• Setup and bleed is conventional Shimano style. Mineral oil. Open funnel on the lever, syringe at the caliper. Push from caliper, draw back, repeat until bubbles are gone.
• You MUST loosen the lever adjust screw. A tiny hole in the top front of the lever does it. If you do not, bleed won't bleed right. This is in the manual but it is not prominent. Also, you should maneuver the lever end to get different angles. Start with the funnel properly vertical. But also angle it and repeat to get a full bleed. Don't forget to tighten the adjustment screw again or you'll almost bottom out the lever. But tightened up, the travel is very short and firm. You can set it anywhere in between. The feel is quite firm and nice when set up.
• Shimano BR-RS785 installed
  
  

  

  Front post mount caliper

  
  

  

  Rear post mount caliper

  
  

Wiring

• I had a special challenge on this one. The V1 Cutthroat was not designed with Di2 in mind and the LTWOO system could take advantage of such plumbing. There is no routing for wires from inside to out. Others have reported drilling holes in the frame for Di2 installations but I certainly wasn't going to be drilling a CF frame while experimenting. My solution was to use a minipump bracket to attach the battery tube beside the seat tube bottle cage. I wrapped the tube in heavy shrink wrap to protect it (and cover the stickers). I ran the wire under the left side of the chainstay/BB junction, across the bottom and out along the bottom of the right chainstay. Secured with zip ties and wrapped with self-stick silicon tape wrap for protection.
  
  

  

  Near side is the battery pack wrapped in heavy heat-shrink tubing, held in a pump bracket and secured with a zip tie.

   

  

  Not the prettiest, but secure. Zip ties and wire covered in self-adhesive silicone tape (it doesn't use an adhesive to the frame just to itself)

  
  
  
  
• There is a small arrow molded into the wire plug. It lines up OPPOSITE from the notch in the socket. When inserting, follow the directions and rotate with gentle pressure to find the alignment. But once pushing it in, there is a false bottom. Make sure you push it in far enough until you get a real, solid home.
• The battery tube has two housings for fittings like on the eRX kit apparently does. But for this 1x setup, there is only wiring in one of them. The other is blanked off. So no adding a front derailleur without a new tube.
  
  
  
  
  
• You can charge and operate at the same time. Handy for initial bench test.
• I used dielectric grease in the junctions to increase water resistance. No issues
  
  
  
  
  

Rear Derailleur

• Simple, straightforward installation. One odd hole in a place analogous to where the SRAM RD has the lock button. Not sure what it is for.
  
  
  
  
  
• Setup sequence works better if you remember to follow the directions. IOW, start with it lined up on the 6th (for 11s, 7th for 12s) sprocket and do the alignment setting. Do not start with the micro settings like I did.  In my setup, it was not naturally aligned and required an offset to work. But this is simple. And once you have the baseline established, the others are pretty close and individually tunable. In fact they may have been correct if I hadn't messed with some of them first.
• Note that if you do micro adjust, there is a latency after each shift before the app shows the current micro setting for that sprocket. Wait for it to kick in before pressing or you will confuse yourself.
• As mentioned above, I'm running this out of spec with at 10-50 cassette. But after setting the B screw, the derailleur had no problem going from the 42 to 50t sprocket. The clearance is tight between the jockey wheel and cassette as it makes the transition, but once in place it is at spec.
• I was thoroughly pleased with the stand test. Quick, clean shifting each and every time across the cassette.

Initial testing

This write-up is very preliminary. I have shop-tested and taken it for a single, 16 mile ride so far. But the initial results are very promising.

• It does pair with a Garmin 1030 plus as a generic electronic shifter. It will display gearing but does not appear to get recorded to the fit file. More research needed. A was also able to pair it with a Karoo II but haven't run it yet.
• It does throw a low battery error on startup on the Garmin. Checking in the LTWOO app showed 86%.  I assume it is simply not sending valid data.
• Note that as far as I can tell, there is no way to check the battery status of the CR2032 batteries in the shifters with the app or a head unit. In theory, the LED will warn but I can't tell yet. The good thing is that with two controls, you could always fire up the app and switch which is operational.
• Shifting in the real world had low latency, quick to complete and almost perfect. I had one 'skip' one time. Might have been a glitch. Might have been a gear where I need to micro adjust. A very nice experience that compares well to the SRAM AXS setup. (I don't have Di2 experience for comparison)
• I have some sort of issue with the control paddles. I have bikes in most major shifting configs from downtube friction, through Shimano and SRAM mechanical AXS and switch between them with minimal mental overhead. But I find myself THINKING about which paddle to use here. We'll see how long it takes to develop muscle memory. The paddles are easy to differentiate with fingers. But with fingered gloves, it's hard to feel the difference and you have to rely on position.
• Braking performance feels good. Lever feel and modulation seems good. But I don't have experience with long descents or steep hills yet. Compatibility with the Shimano RS785 is very good and a good option if you need post mount.
• Brifters are SMALL. They are much less beefy than the SRAM Force HRDs that I had before. They are even smaller than the 105 mechanical on another bike in the garage. Not good or bad necessarily, but definitely noteworthy.  The only downside is that I put them in the same spot as the old ones. But with less bulk, the top to bar junction has more of a dip vs a flat across kind of fit before.

What am I going to be keeping an eye on?

• Reliability. Luke on Trace Velo reported a mechanical break at the B-screw on his prerelease. Given some of the things he did at setup, it is possible that was a fluke and/or preproduction. I can't tell if my unit is designed differently.
• Battery life. Based on the initial drain, I'm not worried about the total charge lifetime. But with a single battery and no accurate status report, I do have concerns about how often I should charge to make sure I don't run out while on a ride.

Below you can see the shifting in action: